00;00;03;04 - 00;00;04;09 Tim You're not going to understand. 00;00;05;11 - 00;00;12;02 Tim And I have to maybe stop and think about that and try to put the MG to terms that everybody can understand. 00;00;12;26 - 00;00;13;27 Tim You know, it's. 00;00;13;27 - 00;00;16;24 Tim Like when you talk about the rule, I have no idea what you're talking. 00;00;16;24 - 00;00;33;21 Tim About. You know what I'm saying? So so, you know, different political backgrounds than in the field that you're in. They have jargon. So to speak, that you all agree. 00;00;34;16 - 00;00;56;12 Tim You all talk about it and everybody understands what that means. But for a guy like me, you don't understand them. I don't understand what their role is and how that even functions into a into a video and vice versa. When I talk about things, I just say things that I think are common knowledge the other people in there may not be. 00;00;56;21 - 00;01;06;11 Tim That's that's where you get into things. I have to maybe and probably Dave, too. You know, when we've been in this industry for that. 00;01;07;03 - 00;01;10;12 Tim You know, 40 years. Yeah. You know, I. 00;01;10;12 - 00;01;15;00 Dave Can I can give you this a man and woman news what I'm going to say. 00;01;15;00 - 00;01;17;01 Tim And not really and how this Mike one so but. 00;01;17;04 - 00;01;19;14 Tim We are you know something I don't know. 00;01;19;24 - 00;01;48;05 Dave If you can imagine the potential unions as being several different pieces of law and one very very critical piece of the pie are exactly those people who do know what you're talking about, that it just it just as a really critical aspect of the success. I think of marketing what I think, which is people who are going to want to talk to a movie star is that. 00;01;49;20 - 00;01;52;16 Tim There's a there's a lot of people, in my opinion, that are. 00;01;52;16 - 00;02;17;00 Tim Going to look at this video and you're going to have two sides with people. And it's going to be a fine line between the two. There's going to be a lot of people that just look at the cars of whole and like cars but have never been down this road of process to build something like this. And they're going to think whatever we do is ne you're going to have the other side of that. 00;02;17;04 - 00;02;45;27 Tim There’s people that do this for a living like we do, that are going to look at this with much more refined eye and say, well, maybe I would have done this or done that and you're not going to satisfy everybody. And at the end of the day, it's what your customer, which is basically Mr. KG, finds pleasing to his eye and saying. 00;02;46;16 - 00;02;48;04 Tim I want I. 00;02;48;04 - 00;02;49;00 Tim Want to make sure that. 00;02;49;00 - 00;02;49;24 Tim Everybody knows. 00;02;50;03 - 00;03;01;14 Tim That whenever we put out there, people are going to say things that may not be to our like to because. 00;03;02;04 - 00;03;02;22 Tim It's easy. 00;03;02;22 - 00;03;03;22 Tim To criticize. 00;03;05;07 - 00;03;05;26 Tim It's easy to. 00;03;05;26 - 00;03;13;06 Tim Armchair quarterback something, but it's very difficult to put into real life for. 00;03;14;10 - 00;03;18;16 Dave You talk about in the first interview I did with you and what I what. 00;03;18;16 - 00;03;46;23 Tim I don't want to do is have anybody feelings hurt. You just got to grow a thick skin to this and just just realize that that isn't it. It may you may satisfy 90% of the people, but 10% are always going to have something to say. And I don't know if that's because sometimes I feel like those people, you can't do any of it. 00;03;46;23 - 00;04;03;05 Tim And it's easy to criticize what you've done or there's a little bit of jealousy in there somewhere along the way, or if they're just critical, but and when I hear when I the first thing I've always done. 00;04;03;15 - 00;04;05;00 Tim When I see somebody. 00;04;05;00 - 00;04;45;28 Tim That writes something on a post that that's been made that's critical of whatever you've done, I like to look at what they've done, what their personal background is. And then for me, if there's no justification in anything that they just said, if they have nothing to offer other than criticism, then that's all it is. It's not it's not an opinion of a person that I would feel that's somebody that I would look up to or take constructive criticism from. 00;04;47;01 - 00;04;53;09 Tim But that that's the thing that I really want to caution everybody. Don't get your feelings hurt. 00;04;54;08 - 00;04;55;06 Tim You know, don't. 00;04;55;27 - 00;05;04;21 Tim Don't take it personal, you know, because there's there's going to be people out there that just I don't know, maybe they're just miserable people. 00;05;04;29 - 00;05;06;08 Tim Well, you know, and they got. 00;05;06;08 - 00;05;09;07 Tim Nothing else better to do besides criticize everybody else's stuff. 00;05;09;07 - 00;05;17;10 Dave He said he said, I did have great, complete victory. You know. And it is that comes with that that comes with however is very attentive to. 00;05;17;13 - 00;05;40;24 Tim What I'm going to tell you is the 90% that you satisfy aren't going to be the ones that make the post. It's the 10% that are going to make the post. That's there might be, you know, guys go go on there and they go minuscule, you know, and that's all they write. Or they may look at it and not even post anything. 00;05;40;26 - 00;05;54;23 Tim I mean, I did a great job, you know, it's awesome. It's going to be those few that make the post on. There they go. Well, why did you do this or why did you do that or why? You know, that doesn't look right to me or, you know, whatever the comment may be. 00;05;55;22 - 00;06;22;02 Dave Well, it's a little bit incumbent on us. And this is where that's personal, knows a lot about that. But if it is if it's true, like those members of the we've got to find a couple of ways for the 90% once again to to bring to segment it back and make sure you are in touch. You miss the smaller segments of the on the at the end. 00;06;22;02 - 00;06;24;04 Dave But there's also so how. 00;06;24;04 - 00;06;35;11 Tim How you could bridge that gap and how I always bridge that gap. Yeah was where the car was sitting. So after we're done with this, if it just doesn't get. 00;06;35;12 - 00;06;36;06 Tim Mothballed. 00;06;37;05 - 00;06;57;21 Tim And doesn't do anything from here on in, if you actually take this car license, seem some of these bigger events around the country and it doesn't even have to be hard stuff, it can be some of the events that we actually get to and you get the reaction of people that are in the car world as a limit. 00;06;57;21 - 00;07;09;01 Tim You do it every day and they can go, Man, that's awesome. You guys did an awesome job. Those are the people that I find would have an opinion that matters to me. 00;07;09;09 - 00;07;25;27 Dave Yeah, well, I mean, I know there are ways to reach to cover specific needs. Yeah. I mean based on what they already do, do really follow them and everything. So I know they're going to have some sort of way to address that. Yeah. But I start with it's. 00;07;26;16 - 00;07;27;22 Tim It's still. 00;07;28;27 - 00;07;33;21 Tim It's how credible are all the people that are making the comments that that to me that it makes. 00;07;33;21 - 00;07;56;22 Dave That said one of the things I do infrequently is guest host it on radio show in Austin. It's a sports show and so and so we get real time coming in all the time. And there are a lot of people with give. I don't know whether they're unhappy or why they're so, so thrilled to be annoyed with something there. 00;07;56;22 - 00;08;05;26 Dave It's like it's a real achievement to get his off. And yes, they're all over the place. And I think it is a fixed in the shift. 00;08;06;11 - 00;08;28;25 Tim It is. It is because once you throw your hat into that arena of being a professional of anything, it's going to grow criticism from somebody and why that is. I have no idea. I don't know why people, you know, and that's why I say when you see something like that, you have to think about how credible is the person that made the comment? 00;08;28;25 - 00;08;45;24 Tim Did they are they an influential person in the car world or are they some guy that's, I don't know, building some crazy thing out of the garage that, you know, everybody looks at and goes, what in the world was that guy thinking? But then, you know. 00;08;46;05 - 00;08;54;26 Dave She was a competitor, you know? I mean, it's also a competitive business. Let me ask you for social when you had your shop and in the. 00;08;55;01 - 00;08;56;04 Tim Dealer near you. 00;08;56;17 - 00;09;26;09 Dave But but that was really before social media was beaten to death and was there still but it's still a world of print. I mean, you because it's so competitive and because it's so. Well, you were talking about subtle changes. It's esoteric. I mean, it's nowadays it's not like the racecars that I can see were criticism plays a much greater role because still it's really it's how I feel about things, right? 00;09;26;18 - 00;09;51;23 Tim Well, in a race car world, you're they do things out of purpose. When you're building a car like this, you do things out of purpose. But you also do things out of a static appearance. I mean, the car has to look or feel a certain way just because it's functional and it goes fast. Does it look like a flying brick? 00;09;52;22 - 00;09;56;25 Tim You know? I mean, so people don't want to see, you know, people. 00;09;56;25 - 00;09;59;03 Tim Today, you know. 00;09;59;03 - 00;10;27;05 Tim When when this car is bridging the gap between, you know, the things that Dave knows, which is the race car world. And I can guarantee you that the suspension is 100%, you know, going to function 100% and function well. It's how do you blend that functional city with esthetic purpose? And that's that's that's where you have to try to make those conversations, you know. 00;10;27;05 - 00;10;47;22 Tim Well, you know, they may say, well, if we keep the nose pointing, then it's much more aerodynamic. Well, it is, but it's much less appealing to the I think, you know. So what if those kind of things that that we all have to think about and come to some sort of conclusion at the end of the day of what we want to do. 00;10;47;22 - 00;11;17;03 Tim And that's what we're trying to do right now, is how to how do we make this car functional but pleasing to the eye as well? You know, I mean, look at some of the major sports cars out there, you know, like Ferrari does that really well, Porsche does that really well now, some of the cars that they, in my opinion, that, you know, get to be the one of ones like I don't know, Pedro knows all of them. 00;11;17;08 - 00;11;27;29 Tim You probably know them. Damian that some of them I look at and go, well that's an, it looks like a helicopter and the front end looks like a, you know, but that's just my. 00;11;28;10 - 00;11;28;20 Tim Opinion. 00;11;29;14 - 00;11;37;25 Tim That, you know, so some of the supercar stuff, they're the really elite supercar stuff, you know is is really pushing the limits out there. 00;11;38;03 - 00;11;53;07 Dave We have I think gave it has I know you're showing me and we're going to use it there. All the iterations all the computer renderings of the finished product and there would seem to be like a plundered oh. 00;11;53;07 - 00;11;53;28 Tim There's there's so. 00;11;53;28 - 00;12;19;01 Dave Many and it just in a row some of those are just, you know, changes in whatever. But others represent major changes. And I'd like to go through those, you know, if you if you can direct me to anything where the changes were major because I want to go through all 100 real fast that stop a couple of times to say, well, this was a major change. 00;12;19;08 - 00;12;28;05 Tim The video that somebody had of and I the diamond. Did it come from us or did it come from me or the one where they did the rotation of the car. 00;12;30;00 - 00;12;30;18 Tim Of. 00;12;31;06 - 00;12;33;16 Tim Of the original car. It was a model. 00;12;33;29 - 00;12;35;19 Tim Oh that was you guys. 00;12;35;19 - 00;12;37;27 Tim Yeah. So, so my suggested. 00;12;38;10 - 00;12;39;19 Dave So it's just affected. 00;12;39;28 - 00;12;40;07 Rick So. 00;12;40;15 - 00;13;08;21 Tim So yeah. That's what I suggested when I first saw that video is start that video with the side of the car as a as it was. And as that car rotates around you, it changes from what we are today so you can see it. So it's starting to turn and the front of it, you start to see where we changed the front end and then you start to see the other side of the car and you see how differently it is. 00;13;09;01 - 00;13;18;00 Tim And even though the car is going to be shorter on one side and the other, I still think that you show that change. 00;13;18;00 - 00;13;22;28 Dave You know, as to the extent that that's in the animation. But it's a great idea. 00;13;23;05 - 00;13;34;24 Tim And I don't know what the budget is. But, but, but I just I just, I just thought that would be oh, that would be one way to show everybody exactly how much change. 00;13;35;06 - 00;13;36;24 Dave And we were. We were. 00;13;36;24 - 00;13;37;27 Tim We're really we're a lot. 00;13;38;10 - 00;13;54;10 Dave A real good idea. And then I'm going to talk to them again after this session started. So I'm going to ask immediately because I I'd like to when we get started. Yeah, there are a couple of things that are kind of really functional. Like we get up in every episode that that shot. 00;13;54;26 - 00;13;58;10 Tim Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Um, well. 00;13;59;05 - 00;14;09;22 Dave At some point I'm going to find the five of those and then I'll, then I'll have you look at them and tell me what's it. You know, you could just send me notes. Yeah, you. 00;14;09;22 - 00;14;39;23 Tim Talk about major changes. I mean, honestly, that's why I suggest the modeling of that, because I mean, everything. I mean, almost every piece of the car now has changed. There's not really much left of the 850 Spyder. And that's why when we had the discussion today and I said, Well, if we've changed everything else that we've changed, why not change the rest of the car to fit whatever is pleasing? 00;14;40;14 - 00;15;06;19 Tim And the answer to that was, we're still want to try to capture a tiny bit, even if it's just a tiny bit at this point of the original car, we don't want it all to go away. So you look at the outside of the car and we're going to try to keep some of their. But you have to look at the bigger picture. 00;15;07;09 - 00;15;37;21 Tim So not only are we keeping some of that, if we were to change the whole outside of the car to where it looked, nothing like an 850 Spyder at all, then that would allow us to change the inside of the car to where it's very modern. But Mr. Collier doesn't want that. So if you remember back to the seat design that Dave has sitting right up there is very sixties race car ish type of design. 00;15;37;21 - 00;16;00;08 Tim And then you don't want that to be something when you open the door. It's, it's 2023 on the outside and you open the door and it's 1964, you know, so so you have to find a fine line of using both parts and blending those two together. And that's why there's so much discussion here. And, and, and I think there are 100% right. 00;16;00;08 - 00;16;22;12 Tim That were close. We're just not quite there yet. And it's just it's the small things now that that are going to make the car what it is. But it's worth the time invested to make those small changes, to make the finished product really nice. 00;16;23;05 - 00;16;38;05 Dave One last question, Will. Yeah? Are you now living with the effects of decisions that were made back in the early? I mean, you know, when it was the the engine and the suspension in those early things, are you. 00;16;38;05 - 00;16;38;28 Tim Still. 00;16;40;01 - 00;16;48;21 Dave Forced to do design and work a certain what based on decisions you made like something we we are very concrete. 00;16;48;29 - 00;17;39;12 Tim Because when we first started it on to this car, they wanted to keep the original wheelbase of the car, which that's what Dave built the chassis around and that's what he built the car around. So one of the first things that Tom Gale suggested was we lengthen the wheelbase of the car. Well, we can't really do that. So we're having to try to effectively do some of those things by length in the hood a little bit to look like the wheelbase is spread out a little bit more to give it those same type of effects without going and doing major redesign work of the chassis and everything, because that's just not something that I think 00;17;39;12 - 00;18;00;10 Tim is a good thing right now. I think Dave's got a really solid base. He's got all the pieces build us together. So yeah, some of the things, some of the decisions that we're having to make, and that's why we're having such a hard time with some of the body lines on the car. Because if you have if you have a car, this and this is what I said from the very beginning. 00;18;00;10 - 00;18;26;29 Tim If you have a car that the four panels, the length of this table that mark can slowly, gradually come into that body like they're coming into that position when the the quarter panels half the length of this that same slope is now very exaggerated because it's only a half of the length of what we what we wanted to do. 00;18;26;29 - 00;18;39;04 Tim So in fact, this bonding line here that we're all having such a difficult time finding that transition is affected by the front of the car that we changed, we moved it back three inches. 00;18;41;10 - 00;19;01;22 Dave Is it would be fair for me to say that that so you agree with Tom Gay that because you're pursuing trying to get that effect without having to change the chassis but you're saying stylistically you're right, if we could just move it out, we might move it. You're kind of in terms of style agreeing with the guys that right. 00;19;02;02 - 00;19;31;14 Tim If if if they wanted to change the car completely. Yes, you could start from nothing and make whatever you want. In our guidelines when we first started this project was we wanted the same footprint as the Fiat 850. So the more changes that we make to the car, it's a domino effect of other pieces to the car. So when we shorten the nos now, the bottom lines don't quite look like they should. 00;19;32;01 - 00;20;03;17 Tim So that's why we had to raise the nose of the car to get the hood to come back in to where the original slope of the hood is now fitting to the car. When we when we changed that over there, it was down low. And in the hood didn't didn't meet the fenders anymore. So so so yes, there's a lot of things that as we change, we'll have to go back and rethink about what else we're going to change to make that, you know, to give the car stance. 00;20;03;17 - 00;20;29;27 Tim Now, the the car right now a stance in it square all the way around. They want to give some, you know, make the car more aggressive looking, make the car have motion when it's not moving. Does that make any sense to anybody? So to do that, you you give the car some stance. So we're going to change the bottom of the rocker to give it that stance, and we're going to not move the wheels. 00;20;30;11 - 00;20;49;03 Tim But since the rocker is now going to have a gentle slope toward to where the car looks like it has a little bit of an aggressive stance towards the front of the car. We need to change the way the wheel wells are on the car. We don't want them to be effectively the same front and rear or what we've done here will make no sense. 00;20;49;15 - 00;21;08;07 Tim So what we have to do is we have to give this a little bit of gap in between the wheel and this Harley. No gap between the wheel to make this line and this line between the wheel wells now look like it has the same stance to the car. Does that the follow on what I'm saying. 00;21;08;08 - 00;21;20;18 Dave Yeah. And what is it that I'm going to let you go? What is the term? There's some term that I didn't know existed for a car and they used it that it has to do with how it sits or some what is. 00;21;21;02 - 00;21;21;13 Tim And. 00;21;22;10 - 00;21;25;25 Dave It's it's a farming use. It's a common word. But I've never heard. 00;21;25;25 - 00;21;28;18 Tim It's one that Tom said and I don't. 00;21;28;18 - 00;21;29;21 Tim Remember what exactly. 00;21;29;21 - 00;21;31;22 Dave Drove. And, you know, it's like that's. 00;21;32;05 - 00;21;33;24 Tim Really like did he say it was. 00;21;34;13 - 00;21;36;02 Dave A gesture, gesture. 00;21;36;10 - 00;21;37;22 Tim Gesture, yeah. 00;21;37;22 - 00;22;19;10 Tim So so what he means by that, I think what he means by that is it goes back to what I just said. It looks like the car's in motion and it's sitting still. And when the car's moving, it even looks more aggressive. You know, if if you look at old film from the 1900s, if you if you like our we've got a couple the Peugeot and the Ballo up there when the car is sitting still and in a still form and they take a picture of it, it looks one way when they take a picture of the car when it's in motion, because I don't know how all that exact work you would be. 00;22;19;13 - 00;22;37;09 Tim You guys would be better. The car looks like it's really slanted. It looks like it's in motion, you know, it looks like that the car's really laid back and that's what they're trying to effectively achieve here. But with the car sitting still, thank you. 00;22;37;26 - 00;22;38;19 Dave Will be kept. Yeah. 00;22;38;25 - 00;22;40;02 Tim No, no, no, no, no. 00;22;40;02 - 00;22;42;17 Tim Not a problem at all. It's just it's. 00;22;42;17 - 00;23;04;08 Dave Well, it's very like I say, the more an I don't know much about it, but I do know what I think is interesting about it. And to me, this whole the what Dave does and what you do, I've said this all the time. It's just so fundamentally different about who your market is and how you get judged. It is it. 00;23;04;11 - 00;23;24;24 Tim And that's that's why I say some of the things that I may say may make no sense at all. So somebody that doesn't do this all the time or something, you know, and I'm sure there's there's other things, you know, that people do in their profession that they would say to me that I have no idea what they're talking about. 00;23;24;24 - 00;23;46;24 Dave Yeah, you said, well, you know what you said last in the last meaning when it was about, it was about an in one of the one of the consultants who may it may have been Tom, but she was saying basically that it's different to look at a car once and render a snap kind of judgment and you use the the term live of the car, he said. 00;23;46;24 - 00;23;52;15 Dave But he wasn't moving the car. And I thought that was interesting, that it's seeing something every day. 00;23;52;15 - 00;23;53;17 Tim I've I've found. 00;23;53;17 - 00;24;14;08 Tim Out that more times than not and people would call this a knee jerk reaction. But if you walk up to this and nobody has ever seen this car and you look at it and you go, what do you think? You're going to have an opinion of that in about 2 seconds. And sometimes those opinions are the best. Sure. 00;24;15;03 - 00;24;16;07 Tim Because once you. 00;24;16;07 - 00;24;18;05 Tim Get in so deep. 00;24;18;20 - 00;25;03;05 Tim To a project like we're in right now, have you ever heard the term you can't see the force because of the woods? That's that's what we're at work. There's so much clutter going on around us that sometimes, like Scott said, when Mr. Collier saw that we had changed that headlight, but he's immediately said, that's great. You know, and it's hard because you've made so many changes to the car and we discussed so many things that sometimes we don't even see the changes that we made, which sounds stupid, but until you get away from it for a little bit and then you come back and you look at it and you look at a drawing and 00;25;03;05 - 00;25;12;02 Tim you say, Yeah, that looks good. Or, you know, that one wasn't the best idea. 00;25;12;02 - 00;25;12;27 Dave Or We had a battery. 00;25;13;26 - 00;25;16;03 Tim Now you got another 5 minutes, okay? 00;25;16;20 - 00;25;43;00 Dave I mean, no, I mean, we're done. That was done. But are you familiar with a book called Blink? But it's it's it's exactly about that. It's it's nonfiction risk. And Malcolm Gladwell, who wrote The Tipping Point, which was another he takes these kind of things that happen in in the business world or in the manufacturing world something and then really analyzes. 00;25;43;07 - 00;26;02;29 Dave And Blake is about exactly that. It starts with a museum curator who for some reason, every time he walks by this one statue just thinks there's something off about that. So he went, looked at all the paperwork and the paperwork was all fine. But he couldn't read himself of his first impression. And it turned out to be a fake. 00;26;03;12 - 00;26;25;00 Dave And it said that that's a very one of the most valid ways to judge. Is anything really good. Get people who know what they're doing and have them render real quick judgment. Exactly. And yet they don't live with it. They don't live with it. So something does happen subtly when you're around something every single day, if it matters. 00;26;25;03 - 00;26;26;13 Tim And, you know, I mean. 00;26;27;13 - 00;26;46;07 Tim First thing is like when when Tom came back and he said, you know, the car needs to have more gesture, the car needs to have some of these things that I feel that was that was a guy that hasn't been in this project at all. But and this is this is. 00;26;46;07 - 00;26;47;12 Tim Something that. 00;26;49;07 - 00;27;17;28 Tim You have to think about as well, is what he said had some validity to it. Because if you don't take it as criticism, if you don't say, well, that guy said, my, my car looks terrible. If you think about what he said and say, okay, what did he say to us? What can we change to give the car the gesture that he's asking for? 00;27;17;28 - 00;28;04;12 Tim And that's what we're at right now. That's what we're trying to do. So we're going back in. And as we change these small things now, we've in ourselves, at least me, I go back and look and go, You know what? He's right. You know that that helped. That helped. So that's why I say when you take a suggestion, constructive criticism of somebody, it's got to be somebody that has some credibility to, you know, that's that's that's why I say don't don't take everything that everybody says about whatever this project is at the end. 00;28;06;05 - 00;28;11;28 Dave Person Yeah, no, that's very good advice Tim. Thank you. 00;28;12;02 - 00;28;14;19 Tim No, no, no, no worries. Well, we'll get it. 00;28;14;19 - 00;28;15;27 Tim Figured out sooner or later. 00;28;17;04 - 00;28;20;26 Rick Film set, maybe make cut, pocket park in the park. 00;28;20;26 - 00;28;21;20 Dave That wouldn't be bad. 00;28;22;06 - 00;28;24;22 Tim Yeah. POM pom part. 00;28;25;26 - 00;28;26;10 Rick Let's hear. 00;28;26;11 - 00;28;42;14 Tim What they. Yeah the so this this one one firm so let me bring that down to where that to the park side. Well that was just posted. You know I'm sure it's an. 00;28;45;24 - 00;28;46;29 Rick Only one here which range of. 00;28;48;28 - 00;29;09;18 Tim Styles that I said I think have been much better rounded. DEADLINE Well, yeah, the range and the ribs and this when you have feet at this juncture do not down very legitimate. 00;29;09;18 - 00;29;11;22 Rick Follow this all the way back there so. 00;29;12;04 - 00;29;23;05 Tim Yeah it's very real this of the sink this large said that that would help the cardboard. 00;29;24;15 - 00;29;26;01 Speaker 5 And of the. 00;29;30;25 - 00;30;37;03 Tim Well enough for me. Yeah yeah but see I don't they don't carry any of their, their, any of their design then that's, that's, that's why I think it's so hard to incorporate. Well number one for, for me anyway it is as soon as you put the roof on. I like the roof. I think it look really good on there, but it no longer looks like a Fiat spot. 00;30;38;12 - 00;31;08;11 Tim And if you look at a hard top via its off. Oh gosh. Yeah. So they may better with the top. So but I bet if you've seen the hardtop, you know the coupes, you know they just gather and they did make a remove. 00;31;08;11 - 00;31;10;27 Tim So I think that's kind of what he took his. 00;31;10;27 - 00;31;17;01 Tim Cue off was that top and it's it out like that. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 00;31;17;13 - 00;31;18;16 Dave Mr. Carr kept saying you. 00;31;18;16 - 00;31;40;25 Tim Were in a bubble roof. What you'll notice, if not an care boxy. So to me and this is strictly nothing more than my opinion of the car. We've rounded the headlights and we've changed the headlights. We've totally changed the design for the roof. Why? Why are we so fixated on keeping this. 00;31;43;12 - 00;31;45;23 Rick A lot of fixing in keeping revolvers? 00;31;46;06 - 00;32;05;27 Tim Well. Well, I'm just saying. I'll just saying in general, why are we why? Why, if we should hang you everything else, why don't we just change the car, whatever we think is appealing at this point? Yeah. Whether it looks like an elongated fiat or just like it looks like a TV. Drove it to a partial. I don't think anybody who. 00;32;06;06 - 00;32;24;16 Tim Well, no, recently I mean we lost the 1850 figure and lot didn't exist. So why not go on a path that looks appealing to whatever Mr. Carter thinks that that would be nice. You know what? We have this, right? We want to hold off on it for a while. 00;32;24;16 - 00;32;25;19 Tim Yeah. Yeah, that's. 00;32;25;19 - 00;32;33;08 Tim That's really bad. Look, for the next two. Wow. I don't know. 00;32;33;08 - 00;32;44;21 Dave I just got something like that. What? 00;32;44;21 - 00;32;44;27 Tim Yeah. 00;32;45;06 - 00;32;47;11 Rick Yeah, yeah. That's even works like a wig. 00;32;47;21 - 00;32;48;01 Tim Yeah. 00;32;48;23 - 00;32;50;12 Dave Ill fitting. Well, m.j. 00;32;50;12 - 00;32;55;15 Rick m.J did one. They put a hardtop, and when you put it on, it looks like a German. 00;32;56;12 - 00;32;56;25 Tim The only. 00;32;56;25 - 00;32;58;00 Dave Removable hard jewelry golf. 00;32;58;17 - 00;33;04;17 Tim Car that I've ever seen that actually worked was to take the 5056. Oh, yeah, yep, yep. 00;33;04;26 - 00;33;05;13 Dave My neighborhood. 00;33;05;13 - 00;33;06;12 Dave That I'll be here in a few. 00;33;06;12 - 00;33;12;12 Tim Minutes. That's the only one I saw that never really looked like it before. 00;33;12;12 - 00;33;15;28 Rick Or other Corvette like the 66. 00;33;16;10 - 00;33;25;22 Dave What? 00;33;25;22 - 00;33;38;19 Rick All right. So just a follow up from last week's meeting. Everybody had a little homework to do, kind of sketches and designs, and they're laid out here in various formats. 00;33;39;04 - 00;33;39;12 Tim Who. 00;33;40;15 - 00;33;44;04 Rick They were kind of waiting for you. Scott We're just going to kind of review them with you. 00;33;44;26 - 00;34;18;28 Scott Yeah, well, I, you know, I appreciate everybody's input here. I know we're not necessarily all car designers, but we all we we're all trying to see the same thing in many cases. And we kind of I think we get what we're trying to achieve. And one of the things that came out of the conversations that we had with Tom and even with with with Miles, is that is that how do we you know, we already had a character line in this car that somehow just because of the digital process slowly disappeared. 00;34;18;29 - 00;34;46;12 Scott And so to just bring back that line that it comes from the top of the door, down through and around the the the headlight and then intersecting with the front of the of the of the car and keeping some sort of crispness to that. You know, whatever whatever we define and crisp this is is the thing. But enough of a pronounced edge that that gets. 00;34;46;12 - 00;35;05;22 Scott You see Tom couldn't see that in the in the digital renderings it wasn't visible to see it. And and and have. So you've you've run a line down here now and who has got who's got the most advanced sketch that we should look at here that does anybody sort of if we changed anything on. 00;35;05;28 - 00;35;08;20 Dave I shall I change this but that's that's just. 00;35;08;28 - 00;35;10;22 Scott Yeah. Which one which which of. 00;35;10;29 - 00;35;15;29 Rick These I mean it has an aggressive line and took the bumper out of this one. Yeah. Trump won four. 00;35;15;29 - 00;35;18;23 Scott Out right. 00;35;18;23 - 00;35;27;11 Rick Right. This one has still has the front bumper has both bumpers but has the aggressive line. Right. One angular. 00;35;27;11 - 00;35;29;09 Scott Line right. 00;35;29;09 - 00;35;35;23 Tim Yeah. So one of the things that that we're running into and that's why we've put that headlight bucket up there. 00;35;35;23 - 00;35;36;01 Scott Yeah. 00;35;36;26 - 00;35;44;09 Tim And well when move the nose back three inches it's got to rise two and three quarters. 00;35;44;28 - 00;35;47;06 Scott Okay well there you go on that you know. 00;35;47;10 - 00;35;55;07 Tim So bottom line is not going to be as exaggerated. Now, it's hard to do because of the big open space and you can't really evolve. 00;35;55;09 - 00;35;58;15 Scott Yeah, yeah, yeah. The body language essentially by the. 00;35;59;29 - 00;36;00;25 Tim End of the legs. 00;36;00;25 - 00;36;02;28 Dave Now see how we kept it up. 00;36;03;08 - 00;36;12;26 Tim If it came back, it was to the the wrong angles. So we raised the body line. We raised the front nose to meet the rest of the car. 00;36;13;03 - 00;36;13;13 Tim Whoo! 00;36;14;11 - 00;36;29;24 Tim Which is going to make us have from the center line where that bumper would go. Now, going to have to be much longer. It's going to have to be about three and two or three quarters is longer than what the original nose was. 00;36;31;04 - 00;36;32;15 Dave This way with twice. 00;36;33;01 - 00;36;33;26 Tim This way down. 00;36;34;17 - 00;36;36;00 Dave Oh yeah, yeah right. Yeah. 00;36;36;01 - 00;36;42;14 Scott And we raised, we raise you'll need to extend the the bumper down lower. 00;36;42;15 - 00;36;44;01 Rick No. And so it's bumper. 00;36;44;01 - 00;36;45;16 Tim Just to the face and underneath it. 00;36;45;16 - 00;36;49;19 Scott Oh I see what you're saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah exactly. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. 00;36;50;12 - 00;36;57;14 Tim Yeah. But to me the headlight looks great in the car. I mean, I think it's really nice in. The car. 00;36;57;17 - 00;36;57;26 Scott Yeah. 00;36;58;08 - 00;37;39;11 Tim It's. What do you do with the front from there. Yeah. There we have it in front of the thing. Like I said earlier, what was it? I don't know. It's just so hard to, to make suggestions sometimes when, you know, everybody has a like in this life, no matter what you do. But it to me if I look at that car and I don't know and it's 50 feet all that well, but I wouldn't come up to that car and say they started with the name 55, especially Spider, because the roofline number one was never that aggressive, nor was the windshield line. 00;37;40;01 - 00;38;00;09 Tim So my thought process on this is if we've changed this and we've changed all these other features on the car, why are we so why are we trying to keep this? Why don't we just design something that we'd like? 00;38;00;19 - 00;38;20;16 Scott One Well, I don't think we decided that what we're trying to do is to improve what we have and just put the final touches on it. I think that if that was the case and you just design something from scratch, we would start with a nightmare. So now we just have to take we just have to take everything that we've added to the car and make them harmonize. 00;38;20;16 - 00;38;38;09 Scott We can't have around. We can have fluid shapes meeting square shapes. You know, we have to have we have to carry lines through cars that we were missing. You know, we lost all the lines in the front, but we had lines coming all the way through here. So we need to bring that back. Yeah, we don't we're not trying to redesign the car. 00;38;38;11 - 00;38;45;21 Scott We're we're very, very close to being done. So think about it that way. Everything we're talking about is minor because. 00;38;45;22 - 00;38;45;28 Dave You're. 00;38;46;08 - 00;39;14;03 Scott Choosing subtle changes to putting character lines back in that we really already had, but they just weren't visible. That's that's just putting it if we're putting out more of a of a of a our a beltline sort of line into the car that isn't there. That's something we can decide to add in or not add in. But, but we definitely want to try to bring in the simple areas that we're missing. 00;39;14;03 - 00;39;37;29 Scott So for instance, where we were asked to even consider looking at something that we actually weren't missing, we just didn't have it highly. It wasn't highly identified on our drawing. And so just putting I think we we this line that we're talking about right here to carry through from the top of the door, through with, we can figure out how to how to have that go through. 00;39;37;29 - 00;40;06;05 Scott And you can intersect with this line that's that's done 50% of what Tom was talking about in his and Mr. Collier as well the miles whether we whether we can do anything if it's in this line if this line if this belt line can be if we can get just if we can work that out where somehow we are still intersecting and make making it all work, then that's that's that's a that's a secondary thing that we could do. 00;40;06;21 - 00;40;11;21 Scott And the third thing we really talked about primarily was the record. Well, I. 00;40;11;21 - 00;40;12;01 Tim Think. 00;40;12;18 - 00;40;45;14 Tim In my opinion and anybody else can say whatever they feel as well. But the way that rocker is right now, I think you would be best to make it like a piece, this facial that goes on the existing rocker and not try to reshape all that because then you're trying to get in to reshape door jams and all that sort of thing that you know, and there's a lot of like that that are that are unibody cars that it's just got a few that goes over the top and, you know, is molded into the body. 00;40;46;15 - 00;40;47;19 Tim And you can change. 00;40;47;25 - 00;40;48;11 Scott The look of. 00;40;48;13 - 00;40;49;05 Dave You know, like this. 00;40;49;12 - 00;40;49;19 Tim Used. 00;40;49;29 - 00;40;51;17 Scott To where it. 00;40;51;17 - 00;41;14;22 Tim Drops down a little bit lower. And, you know, Tom suggested, you know, maybe angle in the body line or something like that or maybe give them the car a little bit, a different stance. So we thought about doing or thought about suggestion was not to change the ride height of the car, but to change the body panels to where it looks like the ride height of the car is change. 00;41;14;22 - 00;41;29;13 Tim So if you bought this maybe halfway between where the where, where wheels and tire and then you brought this one where it was just barely kissing the top of it, it would effectively make the car look like it has a right. 00;41;29;13 - 00;41;30;28 Tim To the. 00;41;31;07 - 00;41;38;04 Tim Slope. Yeah. With the slope back into the car, you know, so, so we're not changing anything that they've already done and we're just modifying our. 00;41;38;21 - 00;41;40;05 Rick Work to to. 00;41;40;14 - 00;42;05;03 Scott Exact its that's that that's the final little touches that I think that we're trying to achieve everywhere on the car. Like I said the other day about even if you're looking at the front of the car now or the rear of the car, how much fender lip overhang do we need on the wheel and tire? And and if we don't need all that, could we, instead of making the track wider, could we make our general narrower in doing just what you're referring to here? 00;42;05;03 - 00;42;36;05 Scott Now, if if we can afford to to put a little appearance of rake in the car by just softly changing something, even 3/8 and a quarter of an inch or six millimeters, you know, that's all we need. And I think that's in then we're saying the same thing with these character lines as it is. We're not they just when the car is, you know, when it's finished and painted, you just have to be able to read, right, that there's this flow that carries carries around the car. 00;42;36;05 - 00;42;55;28 Scott You're not trying to it's not meant to be, you know, a 90 degree, you know, sort of defined point, like some of the early Italian cars, like would have been awful sharp crease. You know, that's really carries back the top of the fender or something of that. And in this case, that's not what we've got. But it's a little bit of a sharp edge up here. 00;42;55;28 - 00;43;13;28 Scott But if we can try to carry as much as that as we can through here, I think we'll be we'll be in pretty good shape just standing back and looking. I haven't seen all your drawings here and I'm not the expert here, but I'm just trying to be the facilitator so we can come to a conclusion that we can get. 00;43;14;23 - 00;43;37;12 Scott Mr. Collier And, you know, Miles and Tom to react to just sitting where you're at now. I think somebody, Max or somebody took a photograph last week from this angle and in your in your report, and just with that tape on the car, it looks so different. And then that begins to tell you what we were missing. 00;43;37;12 - 00;43;53;00 Tim Well, the tape that we did on front was the extension of the hood. And I just taped over the body so you couldn't see it. Now, that may be down a little too far for for some people's liking. I tried to split the difference between the top and the bottom of the emblem and incorporate the emblem now in the hood. 00;43;53;00 - 00;43;56;21 Tim Yeah. To where it came down and it just kind of disappeared into that front of that. 00;43;56;28 - 00;44;00;23 Dave Yeah. Yeah. This view. I like that, I like that view right there. 00;44;01;02 - 00;44;01;12 Scott Yeah. 00;44;01;21 - 00;44;02;20 Dave When it comes down. 00;44;02;29 - 00;44;15;02 Scott Yeah. Well that's what we were to, to emulate before was that the Tom was suggesting is that we had too much clearance, you know, between the front of the car and, and. Yeah. 00;44;15;13 - 00;44;18;05 Rick In the lid on the front one. 00;44;18;21 - 00;44;19;26 Scott Yeah. Yeah. 00;44;19;26 - 00;44;22;06 Rick We're the hoods way above it and we brought it below. 00;44;22;25 - 00;44;27;05 Scott We still had it, we still had a couple inch dimension issue here. 00;44;27;05 - 00;44;32;11 Dave Yeah. I haven't, I haven't looked into that. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't want to talk to Geoff yet until we. 00;44;32;11 - 00;44;43;22 Scott You know, understand. We'll go back one time. But, but my point is, is that part of what his the illusion was anyway when you were looking at these drawings is that brought it down and that it. 00;44;44;08 - 00;44;44;27 Rick That it was just. 00;44;45;11 - 00;44;48;06 Dave It makes the car look longer. It makes the car look longer, too. 00;44;48;13 - 00;44;50;09 Rick Yeah, really. It was about the. 00;44;50;09 - 00;45;02;13 Tim Length of the front of it, which would help if he it was one of the things Tom said first when you first looked at it, can we move the wheel well. This helps with that. 00;45;02;14 - 00;45;02;26 Dave Gives an. 00;45;02;26 - 00;45;06;00 Tim Illusion. Give that illusion of a wheel further. 00;45;06;00 - 00;45;25;10 Scott For who? Yeah, you know it does. Well, I don't think anything right now when we're you know, we talked about this before, we didn't talk about maybe this drastic of a change before, but there's nothing keeping us. No. From from putting the hinge points. 00;45;25;22 - 00;45;28;11 Dave Yeah. Because the hinge points are off the body. They're not off the charts. 00;45;28;16 - 00;45;29;01 Tim Just me. 00;45;29;16 - 00;45;29;24 Tim Yeah. 00;45;30;17 - 00;45;33;20 Tim Around and look at some things you go I think the light there. 00;45;33;20 - 00;45;34;29 Dave Look I like that for you. 00;45;35;18 - 00;45;49;18 Scott Yeah the only thing this view I don't see it this view I see I the modern era Volkswagen Beetle that that they put just went out of production. So because I'm reading too much curvature there. 00;45;49;18 - 00;45;50;22 Dave Yeah it's not that much curve. 00;45;50;22 - 00;46;06;01 Scott But if I, if I, if somebody said what am I looking at? And I could take myself and think that's a VW emblem and say, that's a front of the VW Beetle. This one I know, but that's just that's just I'm reading the the, you know, the the drawing. 00;46;06;04 - 00;46;42;00 Tim So something we talked about just a few minutes ago, just before you come on here was, you know, when you make a sketch and we'll talk about this a little bit, last time, a two dimensional sketch is a good place to start. But until you really have something that you can walk around, whether we either do clay lay up on this or send a model back and say, okay, we want to start with this, and then we can bring the car back and walk around it and we could model it from there. 00;46;42;00 - 00;47;16;23 Tim We could send the body lines at a different location. We could, you know, add filler and primer to make the gentle changes to the car. Mm. And then that way if we, if we spend the time doing something, you know, three dimensional where you can walk around because we don't want to have happened is you look at the sideline and go into looks great, but then you walk to a three quarter view and you go, well, that body line looks like it's running off the car or, you know, something really odd that you're not going to catch. 00;47;16;23 - 00;47;38;17 Tim And in a in a two dimensional drawing. Right. You know, but I mean, it takes time to do those things and then it takes a little bit, not only when you do that, but you make those changes for everybody to digest what we just did. And, you know, kind of let it sink in a little bit and maybe walk it by it two or three times and then go, well, you know what? 00;47;38;17 - 00;47;57;29 Tim If we if we move the body line up and we move the body line down and we move this character line at the top that blends into the headlight in a different way. Maybe it needs a little more slope or maybe a little less slope then that's easily done, you know, with either clay or seeing the and, you know, some some modeling there. 00;47;57;29 - 00;48;00;15 Dave But, you know, I suggested playing this. 00;48;00;27 - 00;48;20;24 Tim You know, it's it's just like, well, you know, because because, like I said, you know, some of them like to me, I look at some of the views on on these cars and go, oh, looks pretty good. And then I see like a top view of it or something and go, Yeah, I'm not so sure. I like the way it meets in the front or I'm not sure. 00;48;21;07 - 00;48;22;03 Tim Right. You know. 00;48;22;16 - 00;48;51;13 Scott You think well to your point so far it may not be seen very 50, but this this major change to me and no bumpers certainly makes it look like that makes it look like a fiat 124 to me not an 850, but it looks it looks different. It just looks totally different. So I and I think we're I don't think we're going to get I think we're going to have to keep the bumpers because that's one of the delicate things that he likes. 00;48;51;13 - 00;49;13;08 Scott Is that is that that that streamlined bumper the bumpers, whether there's bumpers or no bumpers, I think, and whether we extend the hood down this far or even if it comes down half as far, whatever. I mean, I think that would be the point is, is that we need to we it's hard on a drawing, I think, to put these characters. 00;49;13;08 - 00;49;14;05 Tim Like it is. 00;49;14;13 - 00;49;43;16 Scott Back in where you're trying to read. So I think I absolutely agree with you sort of reassembling the sheet metal here to try to get a a sense of a dimensional model. But I'm wondering if we can take sort of let's focus on those three areas that we talked about last time, which I think it was just the eight pillar line, the top character line that comes all the way down across the front, which we knew down here was basically where you started. 00;49;44;23 - 00;49;46;00 Tim Because there's there's nothing. 00;49;46;00 - 00;49;47;06 Scott And you have a big gap there. 00;49;47;06 - 00;50;06;13 Tim Yeah, well, not only that, but the shape of the car itself has widened in this car. If you look at it from the front to the back, it's kind of a gradual bush shape. And now it's really more of a squared off right type of thing. You know, we can only we if if we wanted to, to put some sheet metal back on it and do some clay overlay on top. 00;50;06;13 - 00;50;07;18 Tim We could do half the car. 00;50;07;21 - 00;50;10;01 Dave Or we I am I agree with you 100%. 00;50;10;11 - 00;50;11;03 Tim That way you could. 00;50;11;03 - 00;50;16;13 Dave Get away with this tire and yeah, but this time we are on it because it's in right height now. 00;50;16;15 - 00;50;17;18 Tim Just half the car. 00;50;17;19 - 00;50;19;28 Rick You have to put that rear finally. Well. 00;50;20;07 - 00;50;26;03 Tim We would, but that's just maybe a sacrifice we have to make to get the sheep not in the lineup. So we have something. 00;50;26;13 - 00;50;27;11 Scott To go to that's to. 00;50;27;11 - 00;50;34;05 Dave Get to the real quarter. Yeah. Yeah. I was telling Jim, I think we just have to cut the inner flank. There's a flange I think we cut that will be okay. 00;50;34;05 - 00;50;41;00 Tim That's, that's totally to to, you know, what do you guys think is the best way to, to go. 00;50;41;00 - 00;50;41;12 Scott About. 00;50;41;27 - 00;50;43;05 Dave By a big lump of modeling? 00;50;43;05 - 00;50;48;27 Tim Clay Yeah, like I said, you could do that without or you could do it on the street. You know, the model itself, you. 00;50;48;27 - 00;51;01;01 Scott Know where we do something no matter what we do, we, you know, we even if we did use clay, we're still going to have to finalize on a, on a, on a 3D drawing so that we can create. 00;51;01;01 - 00;51;05;02 Dave And yeah, well like Tim said, we have a digitized, I mean he said that when you're. 00;51;05;02 - 00;51;22;17 Scott Talking about doing clay to that level to digitize it, that's just it's pretty, it has to be like, like it's painted surface. So it's, it's a, you know, it's it's not an easy job to to mold or to pull that clay that that nicely. That's what we started with. 00;51;22;17 - 00;51;24;10 Dave That's what I started with. 00;51;24;16 - 00;51;47;23 Scott Yeah. So, but, but that's the whole point there. You know, I just read an article the other day about how there are still carpet designers using clay today for reasons, you know. And and what we're finding is, is that the final these final we get so close. And that's the whole point. We slowed this process down, right? We got so close and said, wow, it's just missing a couple little things right now. 00;51;47;23 - 00;51;58;22 Scott What can we do to improve it? We as soon as we saw the 3D model that we had made, we saw things right away that we weren't that we couldn't see. 00;51;58;27 - 00;52;03;17 Tim On a to Tim on a dimensional drawing as well. I think almost it makes sense to send the. 00;52;03;17 - 00;52;04;09 Scott Model back. 00;52;05;00 - 00;52;05;27 Tim And then we can. 00;52;06;15 - 00;52;07;04 Rick Which we do. 00;52;07;25 - 00;52;24;03 Tim I know. And just go, okay, this, make it this and then let's bring it back and then we can start, you know, because of that, foam is easy to change and I can easily block body lines into that. You know, we've already got something that all the lines are nice. You know. 00;52;24;17 - 00;52;43;07 Scott I get my feet feeling as if we're going to go drastic on change now. I mean, more drastic than the lines is that we try to correct. Correct. What was it right on the on the other model that we saw right away, because it wasn't picking up some of the head like you, you fix some of that stuff. 00;52;43;08 - 00;53;11;19 Scott It wasn't picking something, had like details. It lost some of this definition through here that the car originally had and then if we if we could, then you could take it, maybe modify that model to your point to make these subtle changes with Clay or even with that, the even with filler. Yeah. And then you could digitize the scale model to create the false model rather than work off of clay, off of the full size car. 00;53;11;19 - 00;53;21;05 Scott I just I'm not saying we can't do it, but it's it's a challenge. And what's more, it's a lot more challenging in the use of some technique and art to the point about a hundred. 00;53;21;05 - 00;53;44;22 Tim On the model that we don't really have a good solution for. We have something that everybody says, okay, let's do. What does that lower? What are we doing there with the grilles and that sort of thing? That's something because on the model that we have here, it's still, you know, the real, you know, real sharp nose underneath the car was a lot of wheel exposure. 00;53;44;22 - 00;53;50;10 Tim You know, we wanted to get those wheels. You need the car a little bit more. At least give it that appearance. 00;53;50;19 - 00;53;51;00 Scott Right? 00;53;51;12 - 00;53;56;11 Rick Right. So that kind of squares off the front. I mean, whether we put a bumper on or I mean, it's. 00;53;57;05 - 00;54;06;22 Tim Just like dove drawn just a little bit there and then drift a little bit here, you know, to bring those and then drop it just a little bit. 00;54;06;22 - 00;54;08;13 Dave So rather than tucking in and go straight. 00;54;08;13 - 00;54;32;12 Tim Down and it is wearing it out just a little bit cool because if you look at that, you know, we're that we were right there tucked behind the car where you know it needs to come out. Yeah yeah. And I think I think this goes down a little bit but yeah. How far out? You know, like I said, it's so hard to tell, but 20 times, like, here I go. 00;54;32;12 - 00;54;39;23 Tim Okay, that's fine. But then when I look at that, I go, Well, that needs to bring out a little bit. You know, that's tough. A little bit too much behind that. 00;54;40;21 - 00;54;42;27 Scott You don't want to have. We're not put in mudflats. 00;54;43;07 - 00;54;43;24 Tim Exactly. 00;54;44;07 - 00;54;51;29 Scott So yeah, you want the you want that rear kick up of it whenever it's throw it back out. You want it to not sandblast the quarter panel or the. 00;54;51;29 - 00;55;02;11 Tim Foam stuff that he made that this is easy to work with. It's solid enough that you can put stuff, but it's not hard enough that it's not sanded. 00;55;02;23 - 00;55;04;01 Scott Right? Yeah, you can, you can. 00;55;04;01 - 00;55;08;25 Dave He said he has chunks that we want so you can. Yeah, he can send chunks there if we wanted. 00;55;09;05 - 00;55;37;18 Tim But our, our model right now is so far away from this that I, at least in my opinion, who, you know, if you sent it back and have him cut off the front and, you know, whatever he's got to do to make it to what that would be, you know, then we're a lot closer to them or then more to the point to where we're here, and at least we can go back and, you know, play around with some things after that. 00;55;37;19 - 00;55;55;13 Dave If we were to tell Jeff, right, say today, okay, Jeff, send him a 3D model of what we have here. What would you change from this model? What would you tell him? Make it narrower so it lines up better with the wheel surface. 00;55;55;13 - 00;56;06;08 Tim Yeah. See that's, that's still the thing until you see it in person. I don't know what that overhanging that wheel is. I don't know how far that bump comes out beyond the tire. 00;56;07;05 - 00;56;11;14 Scott But we have those straight on the straight on front V as well. 00;56;11;23 - 00;56;13;01 Dave Let's show you to I'm like. 00;56;13;16 - 00;56;39;10 Scott Well, there was one of the lower ones that are sort of like that one. Yeah, there's one. Is that based off of the original. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. But some of the this is what Tom was reacting to. Whatever we sent, we sent a straight on view and it looked like the, you know, the tires should have, you know, come out closer to the to as close to the wheel and tire combo should come out as close to the flush, too, which is the common sort of look today. 00;56;39;10 - 00;57;03;03 Scott Right. It doesn't it doesn't mean we are trying to respect it. I know we talked we had down that path earlier. We're we're trying to make sure it looks like an 850 spider in some way without losing that for Tony sort of feel of line. But that's just a common if the body gets too bulbous out over the wheels and tires it just it just it just takes away from that. 00;57;03;05 - 00;57;25;02 Scott And it also gives you a bit more of aggressive look, right, where you if you get the tire right out to the edge. So, yes, if we could narrow down the flare just a little bit, but yet still, when the tire tucks up underneath, we're not you know, when you're on a hard corner and you hit a bump, you're not you know, you're rubbing rubber in the front the front fender lift. 00;57;26;24 - 00;57;52;00 Scott That would be nice. And and if we can capture some of that, you know, again, I know it's difficult on a on your drawings here. If we can capture this line and tie it into to here so that it becomes, you know, it's it's they know that it's actually a protruding you know, we have a you know, you have it you have an angle here. 00;57;52;00 - 00;58;06;00 Scott So it's obvious. But as you get up in here, it's not an angle and it's it's a it's more of around it. So it's how do we put a Chris in to transition? Yeah, it is. It's, it's meant to go from it has to soften a little bit through here. 00;58;07;12 - 00;58;11;10 Dave Not necessarily the change in all of this to what happens. 00;58;11;10 - 00;58;38;18 Tim Since this line is going to be more of a a body line. And we're this is a flat. What would Mr. Kiger think about just softening that edge to to where it it's not such a sharp flat here and then it comes into a round where it's more just. 00;58;38;22 - 00;58;40;17 Dave So and other words transition further back. 00;58;40;27 - 00;58;44;11 Tim Yeah. Yeah. So just, just make this line just a little. 00;58;44;20 - 00;58;53;02 Tim Softer and not quite as sharp that way with lead this line and to where because this really has nothing to go through, right? 00;58;53;28 - 00;59;01;14 Scott In my opinion it doesn't. Well, yeah. I mean, this is the theory this this was going to try to line. 00;59;01;14 - 00;59;02;23 Dave Yeah, right, exactly. Right. 00;59;03;03 - 00;59;05;12 Tim Right. Yeah. See here is the profile of the original. 00;59;05;14 - 00;59;06;13 Tim Yeah, yeah. 00;59;06;23 - 00;59;07;02 Scott Yeah. 00;59;07;05 - 00;59;07;24 Tim Came down. 00;59;07;27 - 00;59;21;12 Scott Right. Yeah. If we can get that back, if we can get this back whatever radius that is. Yeah. And we can put that radius through there. Why not. 00;59;21;24 - 00;59;25;20 Tim Well you can't. What you have to do is you have to flatten the top of this fender. 00;59;26;00 - 00;59;31;12 Dave A little bit. Yeah. Make that happen. Yeah. I think if you do that, it wouldn't take that much. 00;59;32;03 - 00;59;46;20 Tim That's what I'm suggesting. Go 5050 on both. Yeah. Soften this line up a little bit, but also soften that body line up on both places to where it's it's well I see like this is not quite as sharp as. 00;59;46;20 - 00;59;47;18 Scott What the exact. 00;59;47;22 - 00;59;48;14 Rick What the storm. 00;59;48;23 - 00;59;49;16 Tim Ledges. 00;59;49;22 - 01;00;31;00 Scott Right, right. Yeah. They've been able to take the nose, the original nose section. It is a little sharper and closer to what you have there. But they were able to to to transition this to a to have a bit of a round or line back through through here. Yeah. But I don't think as long as we're treating it as the character line through the top of the, I guess the from the call it the a-pillar or through that, that top section of the car, as long as you're reading it like a, like a character line design line designed to be there, I don't think it's a problem. 01;00;31;20 - 01;00;35;07 Scott But to your point, this is the this is the standard section. We actually. 01;00;35;15 - 01;00;36;07 Dave Just push it. 01;00;36;08 - 01;00;37;25 Scott Forward proportion. It is. Yes. 01;00;39;20 - 01;00;42;13 Dave And we and we like this. We like this look. 01;00;42;13 - 01;00;42;21 Tim Yeah. 01;00;42;24 - 01;00;44;25 Scott So that moved it out a little bit. Yeah. 01;00;44;25 - 01;00;50;11 Tim To where this, this is more in line with this now. Before it was drastically. 01;00;50;11 - 01;00;51;10 Scott Yeah, yeah, yeah. 01;00;51;20 - 01;00;52;09 Tim In there. 01;00;52;11 - 01;00;54;02 Scott Yeah. Which is going to help you with you. 01;00;54;05 - 01;00;56;07 Dave Exactly. Yeah. Cover up the front of the tire. 01;00;56;17 - 01;01;05;13 Scott Cover the width. Yeah. Yeah, you know, perfect. Well so, so in summary. 01;01;07;03 - 01;01;11;02 Dave So just go around the room and ask you the opinions. 01;01;11;02 - 01;01;12;15 Rick Yeah. A-Pillar line. 01;01;13;08 - 01;01;13;15 Scott Yeah. 01;01;13;26 - 01;01;21;25 Rick That's right. I think the wheel arches or something we really wanted to focus on. And then the hood legs we, we like lengthening the hood. 01;01;22;00 - 01;01;26;24 Scott Yeah. And maybe if there was a Ford that was the rocker originally. 01;01;26;27 - 01;01;33;03 Rick Right. That's the rocker. Whereas we're covering more of the wheel with the rocker. 01;01;33;28 - 01;01;34;25 Scott Or. 01;01;34;27 - 01;01;36;04 Dave Putting some brake into it and. 01;01;36;18 - 01;01;36;20 Rick To. 01;01;37;05 - 01;01;37;14 Scott Give it. 01;01;37;24 - 01;01;38;10 Dave Like a little bit. 01;01;38;15 - 01;01;39;09 Rick Of a fork and. 01;01;40;19 - 01;01;44;19 Dave Yeah, maintaining the bottom of the door, but adding something to the. 01;01;44;19 - 01;02;01;26 Rick Bottom of some of these, the rocker like on some of these, I mean a lowered wheel arches. And so this one basically lowered about two inches and you still have five or five and a half inches of ground clearance. 01;02;02;01 - 01;02;03;28 Tim Whoo hoo hoo. 01;02;04;22 - 01;02;09;01 Rick Right. I think right now you got seven ish. Look, road closed. 01;02;09;01 - 01;02;16;25 Dave Oh, yeah. But this line right here is not that bottom line. And you see, this line is the bottom of the door. Well. 01;02;17;10 - 01;02;18;25 Scott Yeah, you don't see the chassis underneath. 01;02;18;25 - 01;02;24;00 Dave You don't see there's a chassis underneath this. So we wouldn't change that height. No, no, no. 01;02;24;00 - 01;02;24;18 Rick I just think. 01;02;24;27 - 01;02;29;03 Dave The rocker rocker would be shaped like and I think a removable one would be kind of cool. 01;02;29;05 - 01;02;29;14 Rick Yeah. 01;02;30;02 - 01;02;31;10 Dave Even if it's painted body color. 01;02;32;00 - 01;02;35;15 Tim Yeah, I would, I would think it would be made in the. 01;02;35;15 - 01;02;54;15 Scott Oh yeah. Yeah. I think if, if we're doing carbon fiber panels, you know, making a cover, you know, we could do it two ways, right? We could do it. You could do it as a steel add on to your rocker that that maybe, maybe incorporates and adds a little strength to your structure if you want to think about it that way. 01;02;54;27 - 01;03;27;06 Scott And then it becomes welded in and, finished off or to your point you were already making. Once we get the if we get a design we like, we could make it an attachable carbon section in the models that trim. You just want to be I think we want to be careful how we transition. You know, the how you transition that stuff like where you know, where the where the rocker meets the the rear quarter and where the where that or that rocker then meets the end of the front fender, things like that. 01;03;27;16 - 01;03;38;14 Tim You keep coming back to bringing the body down a little bit just because, you know, if you bring, you know, some slope into that rocker, it's like then the nose is a little short. 01;03;38;14 - 01;03;39;09 Rick And that's a. 01;03;39;09 - 01;03;40;10 Tim Little short, you. 01;03;40;10 - 01;03;48;09 Scott Know? Well, to your point, you know, we do want to cover up. We don't want to see when you stand back, look at the car. You don't really want to see your frame under the car. 01;03;48;10 - 01;03;49;05 Dave You know. 01;03;49;26 - 01;04;00;04 Scott So Dave's point is that, you know, the frame of the car is going down to here. So what we're talking about is. 01;04;00;04 - 01;04;00;22 Rick Sort of cover. 01;04;00;23 - 01;04;04;02 Scott Something that's that's going to go over this this whole area. 01;04;04;16 - 01;04;08;24 Tim Yeah. That makes it a gradual slope like yeah. 01;04;10;00 - 01;04;12;28 Tim You know, on an angle like that or come down huh. 01;04;13;04 - 01;04;38;09 Scott Just well that, that we could do just a little bit. Yeah. Well to me that seems a logical way, not only for me, forget about from a design standpoint, think about it. How else are we going to treat that frame? Remember now anyway, right? You're going to have it in. Let's just say the car ends up being metallic blue or white, or if you're not going to paint that y, you're going to paint it black to make it try to make it go away or something. 01;04;38;09 - 01;04;48;11 Scott And it just it's just going to detract from the styling in the Congress movies or like an Ivy even going down the. So we want to go, yeah, definitely include something. Yeah. To cover that up. 01;04;48;12 - 01;04;52;03 Tim So if you, if you change this just a little bit to cover. 01;04;52;03 - 01;04;54;01 Dave That like this, this is very subtle. 01;04;54;01 - 01;05;06;01 Tim That's why I suggest that you also change the radius of the wheel wells around the tire yourself, because if you've got something that's on the car that looks like it's going like this. 01;05;06;01 - 01;05;06;24 Tim Then you want. 01;05;06;24 - 01;05;28;19 Tim These pieces to tighten too and give it that same effect of, Right, move the rear. That's why, as if it's from here and you're going down, you know, just close that gap up a little there and then close it up just a little bit more here to give it that same. So it looks like the car is for sure. 01;05;29;04 - 01;05;32;11 Scott Yeah. Yeah, you could do you could do that or otherwise. 01;05;32;11 - 01;05;35;25 Tim Just changing the rocker would look like the rocker running downhill from that region. 01;05;36;09 - 01;05;50;09 Scott Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Now you're you're body. So I see everybody's got we're not everybody but I haven't compared them all that. So everybody's tried something with the Beltline. Yeah. The car as well. Yeah. 01;05;51;09 - 01;05;53;24 Dave Know this is the one I did and yes. 01;05;54;01 - 01;05;59;23 Scott This is the one they did. And Tim, yours as well. 01;05;59;23 - 01;06;05;07 Tim And mine's moving up very slightly. It's coming off the nose and just slightly going across. 01;06;05;27 - 01;06;13;04 Scott And you're where would your where was your wood. The end of your line. Me that the rear spoiler or. 01;06;13;13 - 01;06;17;05 Tim It would have to come all the way out to where the tail lights are. 01;06;17;05 - 01;06;19;07 Dave Yeah. Yeah. I wasn't sure how to do that. 01;06;19;07 - 01;06;25;13 Scott Yeah. Well that's the point. That's a, this is why the designers, car designers are car designers. And when you. 01;06;25;13 - 01;06;39;10 Rick Start driving around, you're looking at cars. And I mean there you start looking at the body lines and some of them are very radical. Yeah. Kim's point before we were talking, before you came in is. Yeah, but they have a lot of edginess to the fenders. 01;06;39;10 - 01;06;39;20 Scott Yeah. 01;06;40;17 - 01;06;42;11 Rick We're kind of trying to avoid that, but. 01;06;42;16 - 01;07;06;24 Scott Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I think, I think that nothing I think we ought to, we ought to clean up one or two of these that we think are the best in there, you know, and just do a quick scan on a photocopy, you know, and I can take that and get somebody to scan on a big scanner and just get a reaction to some of the thoughts. 01;07;06;24 - 01;07;09;28 Scott And if you could if if we could write up just a. 01;07;10;26 - 01;07;11;29 Rick Two summary of what? 01;07;11;29 - 01;07;33;11 Scott Just a just a summary, just a brief bulleted sort of summary of of what we've modified since the last time and then and some of our thoughts in the like. Let's before we do anything with with Jeff, let me just see if I can get a quick run this through in front of Mr. Collier and also in front of in front of Tom just to get the reading on this. 01;07;33;22 - 01;07;54;18 Scott Now, if they say now you're on to something and I really like what you've done or, you know, because I still see I mean, I'm just I'm staring. Why even this day was in an attempt and really because I think we want to keep the bumpers in. But I, I'm still seeing the same car we have, only with more subtle changes. 01;07;54;18 - 01;07;56;20 Scott Subtle changes. And I think that's. 01;07;57;06 - 01;07;59;01 Dave Because I like that profile. 01;07;59;03 - 01;08;01;06 Dave I really do. I like that one the best. 01;08;01;13 - 01;08;02;01 Tim If we're going to. 01;08;02;14 - 01;08;14;00 Scott Use change and extending or I don't use and extending something down, I think I think I agree with you and I think that we everybody would agree that you need to do something because of this rocker. 01;08;14;00 - 01;08;31;12 Rick So Tim's probably the most trained person here. Maybe Tim could make a couple of sketches where we're talking about the rock rain, the the hood line, and then changing the wheel arches in. Draw up a couple of different sketches. 01;08;31;20 - 01;08;34;15 Dave Tim I can get you some more copies if. You want to play the songs? 01;08;34;17 - 01;08;34;25 Tim I think. 01;08;34;25 - 01;08;35;06 Tim We've got. 01;08;35;06 - 01;08;42;19 Dave Some. Yeah, this is. This is my moderately durable. Yeah. Yeah, this one modified. I brought that one just in case. And we were. 01;08;42;20 - 01;08;52;01 Tim I didn't have as much time to do what I like as I was trying to get the Alpha porch kind of finished up due to where we had, you know, some progress on that. 01;08;52;04 - 01;08;54;12 Rick But these other lines of detract from what we're doing. 01;08;54;12 - 01;08;55;04 Dave Just take them out. 01;08;55;12 - 01;09;01;28 Rick Yeah, well, here, you know, when I went through did my models, I just wanted to race down and say, okay, yeah. 01;09;02;15 - 01;09;26;23 Scott Yeah. And I think what everybody has done here is is worthy of thought. I mean, that's cool. I don't dislike it. I just don't think I know that the bumper the bumper takes you back to that. What brings you back? If you got rid of the bumpers now you're building a new easy to me. It's a it's a new car and not no respect of of of of the era of the car. 01;09;27;11 - 01;09;40;18 Scott This this thin bumper buy is is something that I think is a character, you know, kind of a trait of that that got design. And if if we can just. 01;09;41;27 - 01;09;42;15 Tim See this looks a. 01;09;42;15 - 01;09;44;20 Scott Little drastic to me. Yeah. 01;09;44;22 - 01;09;46;04 Rick What if it was a body color? 01;09;46;26 - 01;09;47;07 Tim No. 01;09;47;21 - 01;09;49;19 Dave No, no body color. 01;09;50;19 - 01;09;58;24 Scott Yeah. In my. You get that. I've got the new by the way we've got to do the right to the fab logo that I share with any of you. 01;09;59;04 - 01;10;00;15 Dave Mr. Color showed it to me. 01;10;00;15 - 01;10;17;18 Scott Yeah, I'll send it to you. I think it's thick. It's now. It's now pretty. Pretty much for finally. The only thing it's not finalized is what the finish what the finish of a graphic, you know, a combination of brushed and polished metal, maybe a titanium sort of look or nickels. 01;10;18;24 - 01;10;27;02 Tim To it took years to make it look like this look like years on his computer, not because of the. 01;10;27;02 - 01;10;28;04 Scott Lines and everything. 01;10;28;25 - 01;10;29;17 Tim Can you do that? 01;10;30;02 - 01;10;30;17 Dave I think so. 01;10;30;17 - 01;10;31;24 Rick Yeah, well, I raised them. 01;10;32;01 - 01;10;42;21 Dave That that would be ideal if you can bring this up and have Tim tracing right here and then subtract add the lines like he has opened these up. 01;10;43;07 - 01;10;44;26 Tim But we were talking about closing. 01;10;45;01 - 01;10;47;26 Dave For closing up and then add those little. 01;10;48;19 - 01;10;49;15 Rick Groups a little bit. 01;10;49;18 - 01;10;52;09 Tim That would be so and so fast. Can you do. 01;10;52;09 - 01;10;53;08 Dave That? I'll try it. 01;10;53;09 - 01;11;01;19 Rick In a way it is easy. Adding is going to be a little more challenging. That's why I was thinking if we took it away and then Tim traced it on this. 01;11;02;02 - 01;11;12;04 Scott Well, again, just remember we had a rough trade, a rough tracing and say Ross to me that's plenty good what we're trying to get the reaction to right now, see. 01;11;12;04 - 01;11;22;09 Tim Like when I look at this car, like the side of this car will I like that? And when I look at it here, I say like that pretty much. But when I look at the overhead view, I don't like this line. 01;11;22;09 - 01;11;23;07 Tim And I don't like that. 01;11;23;29 - 01;11;39;12 Tim It's too there's too fast, too much too quick to me it is. But and that's what I, I keep saying it it's so hard to do on a piece of paper you can give ideas but if you if you start to. 01;11;39;21 - 01;11;47;25 Scott But what what if it you know, we need a nice ruler here that you can bend stuff around but what if he just what if we just raised off. 01;11;47;25 - 01;11;49;29 Rick Naturally, you know. So that's what I did there. 01;11;49;29 - 01;11;53;25 Scott Okay. I just put it out there. Yeah, yeah. 01;11;54;05 - 01;12;02;15 Tim But if you're going to bring the car in, if you're going to bring those fenders in a little bit, then that line may not that bad. 01;12;02;24 - 01;12;19;07 Scott Is that the first thing I think you do before you change? I guess we don't want to change. We said three or four things. We were going to try to focus on changing, and I think I want to get their reaction to that before we do any more than that, we can always do more is let's let's let's you might not be able to do this. 01;12;19;14 - 01;12;40;03 Scott You might have to do this or it may have to be, Jeff, at some point, right. That we will. But let's see if we can narrow, narrow the fenders down, just down, just a little bit to get to help with that transition that you're referring to and to help with get the wheels and tires closer to the to to be flush with for you the fender that might have led to that. 01;12;40;03 - 01;13;04;02 Scott So I can't recall mine. And you've already got you've already done and carried it around the nose. Yeah. Let's make sure the let me, you can give me two options, you can give me your extended nose, one just to get a reaction to it. But then let's take the normal nose, one that doesn't have the extra couple of inches that we were working off of before you and and and and then let me let me. 01;13;04;03 - 01;13;30;24 Scott And then went out and then your rocker treatment. And then let's just send that out and get some gets a reaction to the oil slick. The second one, the only one that sits sort of outside of the is that this your your extended nose one ear that's the one that hood standard hood wants to make sure you keep that one sort of us don't keep that as like a separate treatment by just to see how poor you could do this design with this hood. 01;13;30;24 - 01;13;33;08 Scott Right. Sort of. That would be it's almost everything. 01;13;33;16 - 01;13;34;04 Tim We can do. 01;13;36;01 - 01;13;55;07 Scott And then let me and again, it doesn't have to even be any better drawing than that, so to speak. But I know we can do, you know. But the point is, I just want to we're just trying get some reactions now. And if we're on the right path, then we go back to Jeff. Right. And we can send Jeff and then we can work work with him and see see what we can get and then we'll decide. 01;13;55;17 - 01;14;19;29 Scott To your point on whether we decide how, if we want to work off of the scale model, whether we think we can. Now, I've got enough detail based off of some input from Tom and Mr. Collier to revise the digital data for our friend in Atlanta who can then give us that model back closer to what we've all agreed on, and then we go from there, right? 01;14;20;17 - 01;14;20;25 Tim Okay. 01;14;21;08 - 01;14;23;00 Rick Yeah, I think that's nice. 01;14;23;01 - 01;14;32;19 Tim We can do this because you could trace half of it and then bring it in and, you know, go right back over, you know, of that top view of that. 01;14;32;19 - 01;14;56;13 Scott Yeah, well, whatever you feel, if we can if we can do that, I'm getting a reaction from, you know, for Miles Mr. Car, real quick, you know, probably within it, you know, a few hours, Tom, sometimes I have to my have to follow up with the call. But but that's what he's looking for, is you said, hey, you know, just draw me for do three or four things that are the big things are they're small, they're minor, but they'll do the biggest impact. 01;14;56;16 - 01;15;28;09 Scott And let me take a look again, because the other thing is, is as some of the other things now, once you correct those three or four and four a those three or four things, some of the other things you're seeing may go away. You know, in other words, to your point that, that may not that may go away or last night and something and things like that to him, or the fact that even the drawing being corrected to the right spacing here, you know versus that effect, you know, will make the proportions even look better than they did in the first place. 01;15;28;15 - 01;15;31;22 Rick Yeah, because this one was on correctly and that's uncorrected. 01;15;31;22 - 01;15;32;03 Dave Yes. 01;15;32;23 - 01;15;33;19 Rick I still have a good. 01;15;34;13 - 01;15;35;12 Dave Front three of it. 01;15;35;23 - 01;15;42;23 Tim But the thing is, is is the nose is not he soften that. It's not that. 01;15;42;23 - 01;15;44;29 Scott Nose. Yeah. I need to put that detail. 01;15;44;29 - 01;15;48;28 Tim Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is, this is a little soft drive. 01;15;49;05 - 01;15;54;06 Dave Yeah. You mean this way. Yes. Yeah. It needs a little bit more point toward. Yeah. The agency that. 01;15;55;22 - 01;16;18;11 Scott Yeah. And that's the hardest thing as we all can see right here is to read. What is that, that, that, that, that line when you're trying to it depending on which what viewpoint you can see you can see it here that side on view should be able to have that look for, you know, sharper body. But that's not the only one you're going to be able to read it on. 01;16;20;01 - 01;16;43;02 Scott And then that gets us I think that gets us where we want to be and or at least so we know next steps. We don't want to go backwards here and and we don't want to go too, too, too far and spend too much time and then have over and then have a reverse reaction. Right? It's like, no, we need to go back to your homework and then then start over again. 01;16;43;02 - 01;17;06;04 Scott Okay. So I just want to add, but I think, you know, I'm like liking I'm liking sort of what I'm seeing there. I'm liking what today's done, I'm liking what I'm seeing. Everybody's on the right track and I think if we can just take sort of the best of this approach with the rocker and I could and I agree with you, if he wouldn't want your we have to do something to cover up that for a member. 01;17;06;04 - 01;17;18;17 Scott Right. You don't want that right. That that center rocker to come down and not do anything at the front or rear of the car, then What would that look like? Would look super superficial? It would be you'd need to bring something down so that wouldn't. 01;17;18;27 - 01;17;24;13 Tim It still have the same feel to the car, but it still has to. Yeah. 01;17;25;29 - 01;17;44;26 Scott But I would encourage, you know as well, we're not going to, we're going to get some support with this final design. But to always go back and to glance at the one of the things I did this weekend and just go back and look at some of the old Abarth stuff, better for Tony stuff, just to try to kind of get a sense of what they were doing in the day. 01;17;44;26 - 01;18;05;22 Scott And it's so different than today. We can't help but put our own modern influence into this and we are trying to bring some modern look to this car. But at the same time, when you go back and look at some of those cars from from that, it helps you remind you at least where we started from, just like this, I put this back together. 01;18;05;22 - 01;18;10;04 Scott It's like, oh, yeah, we actually did have a bit of a body line and that when we went. 01;18;10;04 - 01;18;33;28 Tim Away, we talked about that a little bit earlier. And one of the things that is hard for Fiat is they didn't have anything that distinguished their car to where you walked up to and said that's a Fiat like BMW always had two round grids or, you know, Alfa had the, you know, triangle type front end on them and they didn't carry anything to wear. 01;18;33;28 - 01;18;37;27 Tim That's a distinct characteristic to that that line of car. 01;18;38;17 - 01;18;52;06 Scott Not really the maybe the if you could one thing you might say that there was no radiator in the front so no grille on the front, you know that, you know. So if you go and see something, there's no grip on the front. How would you think right away? Well, how does that cool or how does that work? 01;18;52;06 - 01;19;05;17 Scott But they didn't really have any air openings, but that's about it. And then if you looked at the back of the car, you might see more grilles and that hot air out. But if you didn't know as a rear engine car. No. And you didn't know enough about the architecture of sort of the car, you wouldn't necessarily. You're right. 01;19;05;21 - 01;19;07;21 Tim So are we going in the wrong direction? 01;19;07;26 - 01;19;10;00 Rick But the grille on the front. 01;19;10;00 - 01;19;11;06 Scott No, we have to go. 01;19;11;07 - 01;19;11;19 Dave We have to. 01;19;11;19 - 01;19;20;17 Tim Breathe. I know, but I was I was thinking, is there another way that we could possibly do that without having a grill? 01;19;20;25 - 01;19;22;07 Dave So, yeah, I don't know. 01;19;22;11 - 01;19;33;12 Scott Yeah, well we had that opening before below the bumper we did. And when the car is going to be, you know we're looking at the thing elevator when the car is going to be that high. 01;19;33;15 - 01;19;35;15 Dave Yeah the overhead hardly going to see. 01;19;35;16 - 01;19;35;20 Rick The. 01;19;36;06 - 01;19;56;04 Scott And you're not going to see anything below bumper and it still would functioned okay but we didn't there was something about the look at the nose we didn't like still that we weren't this far as long as we were. So you the idea of putting part of the grille above the bumper made it look better to us. But maybe in the end, when this is all said and done, you could go decide. 01;19;56;18 - 01;20;11;20 Scott Especially if we end up with the right hood length here, or even a little longer with the hood length that you put the roll back below the bumper and you can't because you wouldn't notice it if you if you were like down on the ground looking at the car. 01;20;11;20 - 01;20;14;11 Dave You whose car is tiny, this car is very tiny. 01;20;14;25 - 01;20;36;19 Tim The other thing that concerns me a little bit, just thinking about this right now is, yes, if we've raised this two and three quarters inches and this has got to extend two and three quarters inches down, is this going to look too heavy on the bottom? Do we have to move the bumper down to split that? 01;20;36;29 - 01;20;38;21 Dave Well, that's what I was asking you before, you know. 01;20;38;28 - 01;20;41;17 Tim To where it's not short and really long. 01;20;42;11 - 01;20;51;10 Dave We might have to well, you see where the bottom of the radiator is so that, you know, basically where the bottom of the bumper is going to be part of the you're thinking is going to be fascia. 01;20;51;17 - 01;20;55;16 Scott You have to be real careful that you didn't end up with this too big. 01;20;55;17 - 01;20;55;24 Dave Yes. 01;20;55;26 - 01;20;56;17 Scott Little looking. 01;20;56;20 - 01;20;57;29 Dave I know. Oh, no, no, no. 01;20;58;05 - 01;21;05;01 Scott What is that, the Tesla three or model three or the cars that that aren't really that front. You want to make sure we. 01;21;05;07 - 01;21;06;09 Dave That's why we need a grille. 01;21;07;02 - 01;21;17;09 Scott Yeah I think but to your point Tim it doesn't want to look like it's a race car with a big air day. I want to know, right. Yeah. You know what to do with it. You know, it has to feel like it's it all at all. 01;21;17;10 - 01;21;21;00 Tim It all went together. Yeah. So that it wasn't an afterthought, but. 01;21;21;02 - 01;21;40;14 Scott But think about how far we've come by learning. Number one, just in the last two weeks that we had a little bit of an issue with some here that we didn't pick up on until late. We had we've kind of lost this that we kind of forgot about a little bit. The nose was lower. In reality it what we need. 01;21;40;17 - 01;21;40;27 Tim Yeah. 01;21;41;23 - 01;21;52;10 Scott So we've, we've, we've learned those key things that's really going to help us to get to the next one because we wouldn't want to go to another model and then and then find out that we didn't like those things. 01;21;52;11 - 01;21;59;06 Tim We can always change this. I did this just because of where the emblem sat, but the emotion always moved. Yeah, it's not. It doesn't have. 01;21;59;06 - 01;22;03;01 Scott To be out here. To your point, the emblem could be here if he did put the. Yeah. If you. 01;22;03;06 - 01;22;04;12 Tim Wanted this used to be. 01;22;06;09 - 01;22;06;22 Scott There when. 01;22;06;23 - 01;22;07;27 Tim You. That's fine too. 01;22;08;04 - 01;22;09;03 Dave I like the shape though. 01;22;09;27 - 01;22;47;03 Scott I think if you're I mean, we have to see this on paper or on on the computer eventually. But I think depending on what you've done here, to raise the front of the car, if this gets to be too big, you still need that bumper. I don't think we want our bumper. I think we still want to see a little skinnier looking bumper that that then and then you might then by extending this down, might make the front look better than it does without in other words, we can't have we can't have the bumper having now to be lowered in the car and create that of more space here. 01;22;47;03 - 01;22;49;12 Scott Yeah. Because we've tried to get eliminate that. 01;22;49;25 - 01;22;53;24 Tim We have, we have. 01;22;53;24 - 01;22;59;29 Scott Well I think we've come a long way and I appreciate that. And let's see where we go from here. 01;23;00;06 - 01;23;04;19 Rick So in terms of just you're going to do a side view in the front then? 01;23;04;23 - 01;23;06;03 Tim Yeah, yeah. I think. 01;23;06;03 - 01;23;07;22 Rick We I think that's. 01;23;08;05 - 01;23;08;08 Dave What. 01;23;08;19 - 01;23;09;12 Scott We need right now. 01;23;09;19 - 01;23;15;13 Dave I'll play with seeing if I can eliminate those lines. If I just give you a blank piece, blank car. 01;23;15;17 - 01;23;23;08 Scott And let's consider where we send this out that we may not be done, but we're trying to capture those those again, those two go back to those three or four points that we. 01;23;23;08 - 01;23;24;01 Rick Make a summary. 01;23;24;12 - 01;23;55;07 Scott And then we can say, okay, now we're doing really well. How about we add this? Or How about we do that? Because I'm all in. I'm all in with that. I just don't want us to go overboard on this all always too much time. I'm not until we get a to get a reaction, but I just as I go back to say what I said a little bit ago, that photograph of your report, though, when I said that out to Mr. Car or read Miles, we talked about he said, wow, he said if you could just get that character line right there. 01;23;55;16 - 01;24;03;02 Scott And he saw this as well. Whatever was in that photograph that changed to him the last time he saw the car, it just transforms the way. 01;24;03;15 - 01;24;04;23 Dave That was unintentional to. 01;24;05;18 - 01;24;07;14 Rick The light. Those lines do I have to? 01;24;08;02 - 01;24;26;09 Tim That's why we did that. You know, we just thought, well, we always put it back together. That's why we made a nice clean cut. And we just thought, Yeah, now this line of that, they put a line, you know, laser across there and we ended up there and then got the light to tell in a way that yeah, obviously this transition here is not exactly right so far. 01;24;26;09 - 01;24;35;05 Tim But what we found out was when we put the nose on and we, we move that three inches fast, that's what we did after that. Bottom line was now. 01;24;35;05 - 01;24;35;19 Tim But no. 01;24;36;00 - 01;24;36;24 Dave Notes because. 01;24;37;07 - 01;24;37;17 Dave You know. 01;24;37;26 - 01;24;46;12 Tim It fit the hood line anymore. So we're not I mean, what are we going to do there? So yeah, I guess we got a jacket up. Got to get it back up where it needs to be. 01;24;46;12 - 01;24;47;24 Scott I can see here too. 01;24;48;01 - 01;24;51;12 Dave Is where we're. Yeah. Where it used to was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 01;24;52;17 - 01;24;59;19 Scott Yeah, yep, yep. Got it. All right. Sounds good. Sorry, sorry. Sorry to hope everybody else least. 01;24;59;19 - 01;25;08;17 Rick Not only that, you're focused on a few points and thank you. Good of you. And that's it. 01;25;08;17 - 01;25;13;19 Speaker 5 The group that's some. 01;25;13;28 - 01;25;14;18 Scott Of the that. 01;25;22;05 - 01;25;22;15 Speaker 5 You know, a. 01;25;22;15 - 01;25;29;14 Rick Lot of B-roll they're mounting that's going to be about all this stuff. It's actually the opposite of that's good. 01;25;30;04 - 01;25;39;01 Dave Kieran Tierney can I ask you can you I think did you take your mind off? I have a couple of questions that I'd like to ask you, if I could. 01;25;40;17 - 01;25;41;24 Rick And you know what? 01;25;42;04 - 01;25;45;00 Scott Let me just say what I would like to talk to you about. 01;25;45;00 - 01;25;48;25 Rick If you will, in changing direction, which we're going to. 01;25;48;25 - 01;25;58;14 Dave Have the lightning had nothing to do with the car changing about the car look like a certain kind of lightning when you talk to talking about that. You know. 01;25;58;17 - 01;26;01;17 Rick We were talking about the tell me when. 01;26;01;17 - 01;26;02;02 Scott The record. 01;26;03;08 - 01;26;16;17 Speaker 5 Was last, the car would be a little. 01;26;39;11 - 01;27;01;18 Tim This bit the rocker line to where now it comes down here and it has small pitch towards the front to where it's getting lower towards the car. But when we did that, if you were to keep the same wheel arch that we have same spacing between front and rear, then it wouldn't look like the car was pitched down. 01;27;01;18 - 01;27;14;05 Tim So what we did, what we're talking about doing is closing the gap up a little bit here, then closing the gap up a little bit more here. So it still looks like the car has right to the car. 01;27;14;05 - 01;27;30;07 Scott And if I could also say this was the last thing. Yes, I think he was referring to what you were talking about, putting the Porsche headlight on the how much the headline sitting in the hole sort of changed the look of that of that note. 01;27;31;08 - 01;27;33;21 Tim Yeah. Okay. I'm sorry. 01;27;33;21 - 01;27;45;27 Dave You you were using the term lighting headline and I thought you were talking about a certain aspect of the car became more understandable. There was more of an agreement once it looked like it was in a. 01;27;45;27 - 01;27;47;17 Rick Certain kind of light. So I went down, right? 01;27;48;03 - 01;28;11;02 Tim Yeah. No, just. Just the lighting itself in the car. How it changed it. If you look right now, if you stand in front of the car and you look at the original side and the side that we changed, that's why we did that. So who only did one side? So could look at and go, oh, well, that that not only helps you know this, but it also helps our problem. 01;28;11;02 - 01;28;32;16 Tim That was it wasn't out far enough to cover the tire. So this does cover the tire. Yeah. And then when we brought the front end up to meet three inches shorter, which we agreed that that's what we were going to try the nose was down so low the it it didn't even look right. It looked like the front of the car was falling off the car. 01;28;32;16 - 01;28;45;22 Tim So we had to bring it up, you know, we kept shim in it and and Rick and Dave and I were in here, you know, holding things under it, getting back level and, and trying to get get it back up. So. 01;28;45;25 - 01;29;01;01 Scott Well, as I said, that one photograph, you know, if you haven't looked at the car on that one photograph, made all the, you know, just showing it to Miles, one photograph, he said, what have you done? I mean, whatever you've done, don't lose it. In other. 01;29;01;01 - 01;29;01;19 Dave Words, if he had. 01;29;02;13 - 01;29;09;16 Scott You just putting this this feature back in that into the car is is is news missing? Well, what. 01;29;09;16 - 01;29;09;29 Tim Happened. 01;29;09;29 - 01;29;10;13 Dave Was. 01;29;11;04 - 01;29;33;19 Tim That when we were talking about this and Dave and I were looking at this and we started moving these pieces around to get everything the line back up the hood, the line back up was what happens is? This body line on this particular car actually comes in now that the nose has moved back into a straighter line. So it cuts off, well, about three quarters of an inch back there and then comes into the body line. 01;29;33;29 - 01;29;45;16 Tim So instead of having a certain exaggerated body line that went down, we've raised this enough where this line is much more of a gradual end to this headlight bucket. 01;29;45;23 - 01;29;46;23 Rick This one and this whole. 01;29;46;29 - 01;30;06;25 Scott Yeah, yeah. That was the one that was the side view where you could see the tape to where you could actually read this, this line on there. That one. Yeah, that one. That one there. Just that one that you just standing looking at that if you didn't know better, it kind of looks even even the photograph. It kind of looks like there's a break in that. 01;30;06;26 - 01;30;12;23 Scott Yeah. In the map. Right. It looks yeah. It looks like you've got a transition in because the lighting is affecting this. 01;30;12;24 - 01;30;15;23 Rick So the way that looked on I see that now. Yeah. 01;30;17;08 - 01;30;20;27 Scott In our eyes we see one way. But depending on where he was shooting with the camera. 01;30;20;27 - 01;30;33;18 Tim Yeah. Yeah. You can see it right there. That's the original one on and you can see how much that body line right there, how much that tape line is below that. Now we move that that fender up. 01;30;34;12 - 01;30;35;29 Scott You know, and I can I even look. 01;30;35;29 - 01;30;36;17 Dave In here, I. 01;30;36;17 - 01;30;37;15 Scott Can sort of see. 01;30;37;15 - 01;30;38;26 Tim That the needs of the. 01;30;38;29 - 01;30;41;10 Tim It needs to be cut off a little bit on there as well. 01;30;41;11 - 01;30;47;00 Scott Just to get a nice, nice radius. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. 01;30;48;10 - 01;30;48;18 Tim Good. 01;30;48;28 - 01;30;50;05 Rick All right. We province. 01;30;50;18 - 01;30;50;25 Scott Yeah. 01;30;51;03 - 01;30;52;28 Dave It's the opposite of me. Well. 01;30;53;18 - 01;31;02;04 Rick This this is just attention stuff. Good stuff. Good stuff. Nice guy. 01;31;03;05 - 01;31;10;10 Tim Yeah. Do you still want this money back? Do you still want this on over? Good. 01;31;10;10 - 01;31;10;21 Rick Okay. 01;31;11;09 - 01;31;19;22 Dave Well, what they say great job is kind of restating stuff, right? You know, I thought you were talking about something else. 01;31;19;22 - 01;31;20;21 Tim But, you know. 01;31;20;21 - 01;32;43;11 Dave You just it that's that's you have some more now, but I guess studio head, you know. 01;32;44;13 - 01;32;46;27 Tim Yeah. Well, not since. 01;32;47;14 - 01;32;52;11 Rick We were all saying that one judgment on the definition of pornography but I know it when I see. 01;32;54;25 - 01;33;29;17 Tim Ed you feel that it was 30 years ago you can lose it if I flipped. Yeah. This time it was way more the the social aspect of it because of Doug or anything that, you know, that's, that's really, you know what or actually you reflect a little bit is that what you're looking at there is not in focus of what what we're trying to visualize here. 01;33;30;18 - 01;33;49;29 Tim I will here and that's why I put it in my approach the best way to go innocence send the model back and do what we've done and then play it up there. 01;33;49;29 - 01;33;51;16 Rick The model vehicle back yesterday. 01;33;52;01 - 01;34;09;29 Tim The well or you know whatever we filler you know like now once we get for its design that we like well that would change a little bit save a little bit here change the bottom line a little bit here there. Then you go back and have somebody stand there. 01;34;09;29 - 01;34;10;15 Tim Send it to. 01;34;10;15 - 01;34;21;10 Tim Him and know be able to like the most. Yeah. Then until you have something that you can walk around and see three again. 01;34;21;13 - 01;34;25;11 Tim And see, you know, because just because a side profile looks good. 01;34;25;11 - 01;34;37;11 Tim Doesn't mean that the three quarter profile is going to look good. It may look like, you know, your body line is doing something weird or, you know, from one angle to the other. Well, that's the basis. 01;34;37;13 - 01;34;38;28 Tim You know, that's why I said. 01;34;39;13 - 01;35;00;08 Tim If we if we started with just this painting, go ahead and do the model. Get the model back. Then we could walk around in the look and see what we didn't like or life. And then we could body filler and work it, you know, and change it. You could do it in clay to prove it. I'm talking about this. 01;35;00;12 - 01;35;00;23 Dave A full. 01;35;00;23 - 01;35;05;21 Tim Scale if. Yeah, I don't know, David. I've done it before. It's not once. 01;35;06;00 - 01;35;07;02 Dave You know what you start. 01;35;07;02 - 01;35;17;09 Tim It's, it's not that hard to do, you know? I mean, now it's just, it's like, you know, you got a I don't know. Okay, now, I mean, I don't I'm not opposed to it. 01;35;17;13 - 01;35;18;22 Dave I would think that you would. 01;35;18;23 - 01;35;21;14 Tim Be very critical because. 01;35;21;14 - 01;35;25;11 Dave You know, you've got the army, but, you know, just carving something like that. 01;35;25;19 - 01;35;37;10 Tim We'd have to get a lot of thought. We'd have to we have have water panels up to where they'd fit on the car to get the wheels out to where they go up on the car and fit correctly. 01;35;37;12 - 01;35;39;17 Dave I all we got to do is cut the inner flange off. 01;35;40;09 - 01;35;55;28 Tim Might have to yeah I think that may be the front way to just have to kind of piece together and put something up there to kind of give us something back in that to start with. Yeah, but I'm going to do whatever you guys want to do. I mean, I just you're going to spend a lot of time doing that. 01;35;56;10 - 01;35;58;27 Tim I know. You know, and that's the thing. 01;35;59;01 - 01;36;03;00 Dave So, you know, I don't I wish it to 910 we did that. 01;36;05;11 - 01;36;08;04 Tim Particular to when were you. 01;36;08;04 - 01;36;09;02 Dave Did defenders. 01;36;09;10 - 01;36;16;05 Tim You know reshape defenders because. Oh no no I see not only to remember both yeah did beautiful jump. 01;36;16;14 - 01;36;18;17 Rick Well I think that's a. 01;36;19;05 - 01;36;26;14 Tim Well we we will hopefully get it from photographs. Yeah we did it from whatever we had pictures that worked out fine. 01;36;26;14 - 01;36;31;03 Dave That's why I think if you be good at that this. 01;36;31;16 - 01;36;40;10 Tim Stuff what he lives you know I, I don't know. 01;36;40;24 - 01;36;42;20 Rick Well you have to convince. 01;36;42;24 - 01;36;44;02 Tim You know, you're right the way. 01;36;44;03 - 01;36;47;11 Tim Yes, his style is very different than what it. 01;36;47;13 - 01;36;55;19 Tim Is like most people and most people that I've dealt with in the past, you know, they would look at it, you know, relationships that this. Yeah, okay. 01;36;55;22 - 01;37;03;15 Dave Very good. Let's not curse it. Kind of. Mackey, is it? No, it is fine. Let's. Chris that kind of backing you. 01;37;03;15 - 01;37;17;11 Tim Why, I'll tell them. I think you got enough to do something to go around the room and call up names and numbers. Do me a favor, please. Silence your telephones for us. You in retribution so we don't care. Platen, Scott. 01;37;17;21 - 01;37;18;22 Rick We're waiting for slide. 01;37;19;05 - 01;37;23;00 Tim We wait till the little languages that are coming in. Would you still want to read? 01;37;23;23 - 01;37;26;01 Rick Yeah, because no matter what we talked about, it's. 01;37;26;19 - 01;37;27;23 Tim Just double cover. 01;37;28;01 - 01;37;30;23 Rick Likely we're gonna have to go back over it again. Right. 01;37;31;03 - 01;37;33;13 Tim But what's his name started out. 01;37;33;14 - 01;37;33;23 Tim Yeah. 01;37;35;01 - 01;37;35;21 Scott Yeah, yeah. 01;37;35;21 - 01;37;36;01 Dave I'm sorry. 01;37;36;09 - 01;37;41;09 Tim Do you want this more? I was sort of in the back in those days. You want us on for good? Yeah. 01;37;41;12 - 01;37;42;16 Dave No, that was. 01;37;43;03 - 01;37;47;14 Tim If you. If you don't know a lot about cars, you're not going to understand. 01;37;48;15 - 01;38;00;08 Tim And I have to maybe stop and think about that and try to put that middle ring to terms that everybody can understand. You know, it's like when you talk about B-roll, I have no idea what you're talking about. 01;38;01;27 - 01;38;06;19 Tim You know what I'm saying? So so, you know, different people's backgrounds. 01;38;06;19 - 01;38;13;07 Tim And in the field that you're in, they have jargon, so to speak. 01;38;13;24 - 01;38;16;06 Tim That you you all. 01;38;16;19 - 01;38;35;11 Dave Piece of the pie or exactly the people who do know what you're talking to. And it just it just that's a really critical aspect of the success. I think of of of keeping a loyal audience is people who are going to really want to talk to and want to be spoken to. 01;38;35;19 - 01;39;22;13 Tim With much more refined I in saying, well, maybe I would have done it or done that and you're not going to satisfying everybody. And at the end of the day, it's what your customer always just basically finds pleasing to his eyes. And I, I want well, I want to make sure that everybody and everybody put out this that people are going to say and not that may not read tomorrow because it's easy to criticize and it's easy to answer every menu. 01;39;23;03 - 01;39;27;06 Tim But very difficult to put into real life. 01;39;27;06 - 01;39;32;06 Dave As you talk about in the first interview we did with you and. 01;39;32;10 - 01;39;38;15 Tim What what I don't want to do is have anybody feelings hurt. You just got to 90% of the people. 01;39;38;27 - 01;39;43;19 Tim But 10% are always going to have something to say. And I don't know if that's. 01;39;43;19 - 01;39;44;12 Tim Because. 01;39;45;16 - 01;39;48;00 Tim Sometimes I feel like those people. 01;39;48;19 - 01;40;12;29 Tim You know, I can't do any of it. It's easy to criticize what you've done. Me There is a little bit of jealousy in that somewhere along the way, or if they're just critical. But when, when I hear, when I the first thing I've always done, when I see somebody that writes something on a. 01;40;12;29 - 01;40;14;07 Tim Post that has been. 01;40;14;07 - 01;40;49;05 Tim Made that's critical of whatever you've done, I like to look at what they've done, what their personal background is. And then from that, I'll step know for that statement. So one that offers very constructive criticism for my clients that best things that are relevant or don't get your feelings or you know how it is. So don't take it personally. 01;40;50;10 - 01;41;00;18 Tim You know, the other one did seem just it was just vegetables. They were, you know, I don't know that we can do to ostracized everybody. 01;41;01;03 - 01;41;02;15 Dave He said. He said names. 01;41;02;15 - 01;41;03;05 Tim Yeah and my husband. 01;41;04;27 - 01;41;08;07 Dave And I that goes with that that's. 01;41;09;12 - 01;41;38;27 Tim What's taking that night on the cell phone. But I really won't make the post. It's the 10% that we're going to make. So there might be, you know, guys, go, go on there. They let us call, you know, names, all they write. And then they look at it and can post anything good enough that makes them focus on that. 01;41;39;10 - 01;41;47;20 Tim Why don't you I want whatever response. 01;41;47;20 - 01;41;49;11 Dave Well, it's it's a little bit. 01;41;49;29 - 01;41;51;10 Tim Of that on us.